tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post5530259661550038229..comments2024-01-08T02:16:57.647-08:00Comments on Religion, Sets, and Politics: Orthodox Judaism, Science, and Natan SlifkinJoshuahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-46340732710910134762010-01-21T18:49:52.398-08:002010-01-21T18:49:52.398-08:00There are many ways to resolve modern scientific i...There are many ways to resolve modern scientific issues with "old" Judaic tradition.<br /><br />The ultra-religious that are shunning modern science that what it offers and how it conflicts with thousands of years of tradition, are doing this for many reason. I think primarily they just don't know. They are not scientists they are Rabbi's. But they know the truth. The Torah is the truth. If it doesn't go well with a scientific theory, well then, it's a problem with the science not the Torah.<br /><br />I don't know many rabbi's who are scientists or many scientist who are rabbi's. From my experience most scientist mistaken the trees for the forest and the forest for the trees.<br /><br />To say emphatically that science is wrong or torah is wrong you would have to be a master in both.<br /><br />Exposure to the outside world influences is a big concern to orthodox communities. This is an issue that has always been prevalent and won't go away. My opinion is that they are unsure in the stability of their own faith, where a little bit of doubt introduced can seriously confuse someone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-16295355449423300762010-01-13T07:41:35.883-08:002010-01-13T07:41:35.883-08:00If the charedi world becomes more extreme, it will...<i>If the charedi world becomes more extreme, it will likely pull the rest of the Orthodox world in the same direction.</i><br /><br />It's been going on for at least two generations. The Orthodoxy of fifty years ago was completely different. It began to change after WW II. While the Modern Orthodox had fewer children and emphasized secular education for them,the Chareidim were breeding like rabbits. In terms of sheer number, they now <i>are</i> Orthodoxy; they've commandeered the franchise. <br /><br />An unfortunate part of this has also been that the MO have spent much of that time looking back over their collective shoulder, longing for the Chareidim's approval. They've allowed the Chareidim to convince them that they do, in fact, represent "authentic" Judaism, and the MO have communicated this subliminally to their children. As a result, they're losing them to the black hat world on a daily basis. You may find this interesting: <a href="http://www.newvilnareview.com/features/is-there-an-orthodox-war-against-modern-orthodoxy-.html" rel="nofollow">New Vilna Review</a> <br /><br />Also, <a href="http://www.momentmag.com/Exclusive/2005/2005-10/200510-HeresyOfSlifkin.html" rel="nofollow">Moment Magazine</a> ran an article that presented a pretty decent overview of the Slifkin business about five years ago.<br /><br />It's probably just as well. The Chareidi world is collapsing, and, when they go, they'll be taking nearly all of Orthodoxy with them.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-39972109789887995122010-01-08T12:48:13.406-08:002010-01-08T12:48:13.406-08:00I don't come from anything like an Orthodox (m...I don't come from anything like an Orthodox (much less frum) background, but I can easily imagine that if I had grown up in a community in which the rabbi was revered by all and I heard him denounce those who inquire into forbidden subjects in the way that the rabbi in the video does, it would have a very strong influence on me. That sort of experience would have made me feel that ignoring or, when I could not ignore them, denying the findings of modern science was not just a matter of doctrine but of personal integrity. I wonder to what extent the anti-scientific bias that Nussbaum reports finding even among the modern Orthodox may owe to this kind of personal influence.Miles Rindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733605717776262840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-43823426430388017412010-01-08T12:30:03.509-08:002010-01-08T12:30:03.509-08:00Harry, regardless you won't find these sorts o...Harry, regardless you won't find these sorts of claims from the same level of leadership. One would not for example fine a Catholic or Orthodox Bishop making such claims. Nor would one find even such claims among Protestants. Even people Jerry Falwell never made such claims and similar remarks would go for most other prominent evangelicals. Sure, there might be individual pastors who make claims like that (one is reminded of Ray Mummerts line during the Dover trial that ""We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture") but one doesn't have people in the same degrees of authority making these claims.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-25361201273466924452010-01-08T11:32:29.385-08:002010-01-08T11:32:29.385-08:00While many evangelical Christians and fundamentali...<i>While many evangelical Christians and fundamentalist Christians reject much science, it is rare for their leaders to claim that scientists are trying specifically to destroy their religion.</i><br /><br />Hm, is this really true? I guess it might be strictly true as stated, but considering the various people they do claim are out to destroy Christianity, and that they often fail to make a distinction between Christianity and their religion specifically, and that they often don't seem to make much of a distinction among the various types of people who disagree with them, it doesn't really seem right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-77275145722520457492010-01-08T10:35:00.253-08:002010-01-08T10:35:00.253-08:00I like that the most oft repeated phrase by Rav Sc...I like that the most oft repeated phrase by Rav Schechter is "I refuse to think about it!" How telling. It seems when faced with the almost frightening amount of evidence we have to corroborate both evolution and the big bang that this is the only recourse an intelligent man of deep Abrahamic faith has.Lautreamonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067145065971034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-89020820062246705492010-01-08T10:14:43.079-08:002010-01-08T10:14:43.079-08:00Stacy, thanks for clarifying that. I'll go rem...Stacy, thanks for clarifying that. I'll go remove Colloquy from my blog list then. Just happy that everything was ok and something horrible hadn't happened.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-55084870804026201722010-01-07T20:00:59.196-08:002010-01-07T20:00:59.196-08:00Sorry - OT -
Hey, I heard you were asking about ...Sorry - OT - <br /><br />Hey, I heard you were asking about me. I'm still lurking around!<br />I put on 20 lbs last year from sitting at my comp is my guess. I thought it would be better for my health to shut down the blog.<br />I tried to tell as many people as possible before I shut down. I'm sorry I missed you. :-(<br />I wasn't able to tell Pliney or Seeker either because their e mail addresses were wrong.<br /><br />I'm keeping in touch with most everyone on fb. Are you on?Stacy S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05097716092853603943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-73278423848083921592010-01-06T21:12:04.984-08:002010-01-06T21:12:04.984-08:00I went to chareidi schools from preschool through ...I went to chareidi schools from preschool through bais medrash, and what you describe is accurate. We were taught that the world revolves around the Jews, particularly frum Jews, and even more particularly chareidi Jews (though I don’t think the term “chareidi” existed back then). And not just in a theological sense. Everything that anyone did was calculated for its effect on the Jewish people, whether intentionally or because God was manipulating things. Anything that had a negative effect on frum Jews was done deliberately. And science is a conspiracy to delegitimize and lure good frum people away from yiddishkeit. As little kids my classmates and I would laugh at the silly scientists quoted in our textbooks who thought the world was millions of years old. We knew better!<br /><br />I remember going to a museum with my family when I was in my early twenties. We were looking at the dinosaur exhibit and my sister, who was in high school at the time, commented that they were all fake. (She didn’t mean that the skeletons were plaster. She meant that dinosaurs, as a concept, were faked.) I asked her where the skeletons came from, and she said they were faked by “scientists.” So I asked her if she thought there was a huge conspiracy among paleontologists and museum curators to fool the world into thinking there were dinosaurs. And she said yes. This is what her school had been teaching her. <br /><br />Faced with overwhelming evidence that the traditional interpretation of the chumash and rabbis of bygone days were mistaken, the chareidi world has chosen to stick its fingers in its ears and go, “Na na na na…”G*3https://www.blogger.com/profile/06104739087560005056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6883415296937284014.post-45915246212036559372010-01-06T19:28:44.592-08:002010-01-06T19:28:44.592-08:00"If Modern Orthodox Judaism is to be taken se...<i>"If Modern Orthodox Judaism is to be taken seriously as a reasonable religion, able to survive in the modern world, then these trends need to be countered by responsible Orthodox leadership."</i><br /><br />You would do better to say "Modern Orthodox Judaism can't be taken seriously as a reasonable religion, or be able to survive in the modern world, if these trends are not countered by responsible Orthodox leadership."<br /><br />Modern Orthodox Judaism is intellectually and theologically problematic for its own reasons.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07476960140800201057noreply@blogger.com